S2E15: Interview with @LimmyTalks: How to use AI in College Admissions, Following Your Path, Life as a Student at Duke University
In today's episode, we have an incredible guest, Daniel Lim, also known as Limmy (@limmytalks).
LISTEN NOW
In today's episode, we have an incredible guest, Daniel Lim, also known as Limmy (@limmytalks).
He's a highly innovative and entrepreneurial rising senior from Duke University. Limmy is widely followed across various social media platforms for his unique insights, especially into college applications and admissions.
We'll be discussing college admissions, AI technology, future ventures, and more.
Key Highlights
Diverse Interests:
Limmy is a rising senior at Duke University with a passion for numerous hobbies, including skateboarding, tennis, cooking, and traveling.
Shifting Paths:
Initially, Limmy aspired to pursue a career in medicine. He gained experience through internships and research, including exploring his interest in the stomach through Crohn's disease research.
Entrepreneurial Journey:
Limmy's journey took a different direction when he realized the long-term commitment and financial burden of medical school. He explored alternative paths and discovered his love for content creation.
Content Creation:
Limmy began making diverse content, touching on philosophy, psychology, sports, and more. His exploration led him to create content about the college admissions process, which garnered significant interest (and a massive following!) from students seeking guidance.
Dreamschool.ai:
Limmy's latest venture, Dreamschool.ai, aims to democratize admissions guidance. He's working on how to use AI to personalize college application advice for students, leveling the playing field and addressing information gaps in the college application process.
Conclusion:
Limmy's journey from aspiring doctor to successful content creator and entrepreneur is inspiring. He's taken risks and explored various interests, ultimately finding his passion and creating value for students navigating the admissions process. With his innovative startup, dreamschool.ai, Limmy is poised to make a meaningful impact on the way students approach college applications.
Stay tuned for more exciting developments from this multi-talented rising star! You can find Limmy @limmytalks on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. Join the waitlist for dreamschool.ai HERE.
About Thomas
Thomas is a parent and alumnus of the University of Pennsylvania. After earning his MBA at the Wharton School in 2003, he moved to Silicon Valley. For three years, he was director of admissions and financial aid at Wharton School. He worked closely with admissions professionals, students, alumni, and professors to create the best possible MBA class.
Thomas has been an entrepreneur his entire life in the fields of finance, agriculture, wellness, and sporting goods. As the founder of Global Education Opportunities, he works with diverse and underserved communities to help them become successful college students. Thomas started the podcast Admittedly because he is passionate about demystifying the application process for parents and applicants.
Related Links
Apply to be a guest: www.thomascaleel.com/apply-for-podcast
Follow Admittedly on Social Media
TikTok: @admittedlypodcast
Instagram: @admittedlypodcast
-
Thomas: Hello, and welcome to the admittedly podcast. My name is Thomas Caleel. I'm the former director of MBA admissions and financial aid from my own the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. In this podcast, I don't promise easy answers or quick fixes. But I will use my decades of experience to help you achieve your education goals. Now, let's get started.
And today we have a very, very special guest, Daniel Lim, better known to his 10s of 1000s, probably more than those followers across all platforms as Lemmy, a very entrepreneurial, innovative person from Duke University, a rising senior, but with some very exciting plans. Let me it's great to talk to you. I've been a fan of following your channel. I think it's really interesting what you do. And looking forward to having a little bit of back and forth around admissions around your next ventures and what you're thinking. So welcome to the program.
Daniel: Absolutely. Thank you for having me, Thomas.
Thomas: Now, I know that I didn't realize you are a true Renaissance man, right? You're a skateboarder, a tennis player, a chef, a world traveler. So what am I leaving out of this biography?
Daniel: I think you covered it pretty well. Definitely have a lot of hobbies that I enjoy, I love to play basketball and, you know, love to skate as well, you know, have a broad range of interests, philosophy and psychology. And obviously, creating content is a very big joy of mine. So yeah, I think you covered it pretty well to be a writer senior while I would be a rising senior, had it not been my gap semester at Duke.
Thomas: That sounds really interesting. Now, if I remember correctly, your initial focus was on medicine. Right? You wanted to be a doctor, you did some internships and shadowing and NYU and in New York City, prior to going to Duke and now you are a very well-known content creator in the admission space.
So tell us about that journey. How did that happen?
Daniel: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, as you mentioned, I went to high school, knowing that I wanted to do medicine, not entirely sure why I knew I was interested in science and knew that I liked to help people. So naturally, I sort of gravitated towards medicine. And, you know, of course, being from an Asian family, they didn't push me directly, but the idea of being a doctor just seemed right.
So, you know, there's some research, NYU Langone on Crohn's disease, I was also very interested in the stomach. think food is a very big passion of mine. So I thought, Hmm, why not do something really?
Thomas: That's the stomach? That's a very shared interest.
Daniel: Absolutely. So this research does some shadowing, and eventually got to continue on that path. I did a summer research position at the Duke Molecular Physiology Institute on something similar. Looking at Crohn's disease, again, then around the end of my sophomore year in March, so this is March 2022, I realized the extent of commitment that med school asks for, which is four years of school, so it's not even just a four-year commitment, but you're also down 400 grand in debt.
And so you know, if it had been either one of those two, where it's just four years or just 400 grand, and maybe, you know, it would be a little bit less of a blow, but just the time commitment and the financial commitment, that daunting for me, especially because my parents still work very long hours, and I realized that I wanted to make sure that there wasn't too much stress from the financial sense. And so I decided, there are other paths that I can take to try to help people. It's around this time in March of 2022. I am looking to get an internship for that summer. Obviously, in March, nothing is open all the recruitment is typically in the fall early earlier in the year.
Thomas: For your standard, you know, summer internship tracks for sure.
Daniel: Right, right. Absolutely. Consulting banking, you know, First things very popular amongst Duke and other schools. So the only one that was open was a marketing internship for this alternative protein company. And I was like, yeah, why not do that? And so I applied, they made me go through two rounds of interviews, and they made me make a bunch of tech talks and Instagram posts and tweets.
And at the end of it, they were like, oh, sorry, we can't take any interns this year. And so I was kind of stranded in May. I had absolutely no plans for the summer and didn't want to go back to the lab, and do research. And so I read my options. I was like, Huh, well, I mean, I've made a couple of TIK TOKs. Now, it's kind of fun. I like putting stuff out there and seeing what people have to say about it.
And so I started out making all types of different content, started making content about my philosophical views, about money, about relationships, about sports, does anything I was really interested in. I made an offhand video about my time at Duke sometime in July, then I had a string of people asking me, How did you get in? And what did you do? And, you know, just questions about applying to college around that time, you know, it's around this time, July, August, September, when kids start to think about this type of thing. And I was like, Okay, I'll just make a couple more videos about this.
Then, the fateful day came when a student sent me his entire application and was like, What do you think about this via email, and I was like, why not make this content? And so I posted his application online with his consent. I was like, you know, I think this looks pretty good, you know, compared to, you know, some of my friend's applications that I've seen and stuff like that, you know, I think you have a pretty good shot at the universities that you're applying for, that it just started flooding in, I started getting 10s of hundreds of applications. I made a Google form.
And we just made it into this whole series, which eventually got me to where I am today, just reviewing student's applications. And now we're at the point where, you know, I've seen 1000s of applications just, you know, going through them and, you know, try to see patterns and stuff like that. And so, you know, obviously, I'm, I'm not an admissions officer, I think a lot of people should understand that I'm not an officer, I very dearly get the audit. Right, right. I've had, you know, I've helped out at a consulting firm for a little bit, but nothing, nothing in terms of working in admissions directly and seeing applications.
So, although I've seen a good decent number of applications, you know, I'm not qualified to provide salting or anything like that. But yeah, but it's been very, very, think one of the really exciting things about doing this is just hearing the stories of students, you know, who, who say, Oh, my God, I got into this university and stuff like that. And, you know, I see the applications that you feature and, you know, gave me ideas about, you know, what I need to do, and, you know, we're actually go give me a more realistic perspective. And so that has been the best part. And that's basically how it got to here.
Thomas: I love it. I mean, you know, having been, and I will say I accidentally got into admissions. And now having done this for about 18 years. For me, it is by far the most rewarding part that you meet these exceptional young people who are going to do amazing things, No matter where they go to school, it truly doesn't matter, right? If they get an IV, great, if they go somewhere else great. And then watching them, and I have students now that I've kind of watched through high school, college graduate school that are doing things, some of them doing exactly what they thought they wanted to do in high school.
Others like you who got to university and said, Oh, my gosh, there's this whole universe of interesting things out there, and interesting people that I'm now surrounded with, and they change their path. And I love that you have been able to change your path and be successful in that, right?
Because I'm sure you hear a lot of a lot of students say, Oh, I What do I put in this application? You know, I don't know what I want to do for the rest of my life. Right? And a lot of that is walking them back from that precipice and saying, that's not the question. Right? The question is not what are you committing to do for the next, you know, 50 years of your existence at your 60 years of your existence? But rather, what are you deeply passionate about at this moment in time? And how can we help you explore that further?
Daniel: Yeah, you're now there right on the head. That's one of the things that I've thought about deeply about my own sort of path and just looking at student's applications and what they're anxious about as well. I think that's so important. I mean, Even in the context of admissions, it really does seem like kids who actually do what they want to do and are passionate about it go farther for us, in terms of what they're passionate about.
And two, you know, that kind of shines through the application. And I think, even for me, just from a life perspective outside of admissions, it's, I think it is really important that students, you know, try not to get wrapped up, It's very difficult, I think it is extremely difficult not to get wrapped up in this sort of very tunnel vision idea of a set number of paths that are valid, and actually pursuing things that they're passionate about.
Thomas: No, absolutely. And I also liked that you brought up the issue of return on investment when you were looking at medical school, right? And it's something that I've spoken a lot about on the podcast, and I always talk about this even you know, when I was running admissions at Wharton, I would say to people listen, you need to look at your ROI, you need to look realistically at does this work for you?
Because at the time you were talking about a, you know, an all-in cost of about $120,000 - $130,000. And, you know, two years of opportunity cost and everything else. And so I think it is very important for students to weigh their return on investment, both in terms of time and resources, you know, do you need to take loans? Do you know, what that looks like? What does that look like on your career path? Is there a less expensive option, you know, community college going into a state school, for example? So I think a very clear-headed thought process on your part, and I can applaud that. I love that.
Daniel: Really, yeah, that school is, definitely I think, in high school, it's very easy to sort of think about the glamour of being a doctor, especially when it's, it's shown as such a positive light on TV shows and by people around you, and especially in the Asian community. And so you just kind of throw yourself into it, and hope for the best. And I think some students come out and they just don't really think about these things too deeply. And they're able to find success with that.
But I think personally for me, you know, I think there's just knowing that there's so many other opportunities out there now has given me the sort of confidence to go for things outside of just a very safe mentality and path.
Thomas: And so that's a great transition. Right? You mentioned you're taking a gap semester, and you you've shifted your focus. So you know, your admissions, your admissions content, because you're, you're on Instagram, TikTok whorls, what am I forgetting?
Daniel: Also on YouTube, I used to do a little bit of long-form content need to get back onto it. I think I'll start. Hopefully, once I get out to SF and have more time, I guess, fair to freedom. So but yeah, so I'm on YouTube. Yeah.
Thomas: And is that let me talk as well. And we'll put we'll include all your links and everything in the show notes for our listeners.
Daniel: Yeah, absolutely. Let me talk about everything.
Thomas: And so, this moves out to San Francisco, right, pulling Zuckerberg for lack of a better term, What are you going to do out there? You know, if you can tell me, or do we need to sign an NDA? Or not? If you want to, if you want to get in the venture world, you have to be super secret.
Daniel: So yeah, so SF, was an idea that I had, for a couple of months now. Once I started getting into this idea of creating a tech-enabled solution with the content that I'm creating, I think, you know, the numbers and the sort of comments and interest in this space have encouraged me to think that there is a possibility to provide interesting value to this audience, you know, on top of just content. And so, you know, with this move to SF, of course, working on dream school.
Thomas: This is DreamSchool.ai, the startup that you're working on currently. Okay, great.
Daniel: Yes, just go that out. So that will be a pretty big focus of my time, as well as creating interesting content. I think in SF, of course, you know, New York City is great. I'm currently living with my parents and not exactly in New York City. It's still you know, would be about a 15-minute bus ride and then have to coordinate everything, and Bob, I don't have you know, exactly all the time in the world when I want to create content, so that'd be nice as well.
And then I think the really nice thing about SF is Just the community there, there are so many individuals working on cool things within the tech world. And I think it'll be really exciting to be in this environment where people are, you know, sensually trying to create huge solutions to huge problems at scale.
And so I think it'll enable me to think in a more broad sense, and, you know, really accelerate the pace at which I'm growing, I think, which is, which is also very exciting, and also trying to grow a school that AI so those are, those are the main reasons why I am interested, and decided to head out to SF for this semester.
Thomas: I love it. So let me ask you, You posted some content recently about how to make your, you know, drop dead money, your fun money, right? And one of the things you said was, you know, an ability to kind of take, take feedback. So I'm going to ask you one or two tough questions here in a very positive tone. Do you feel that AI is fundamentally dishonest for an applicant to use in the admissions process?
Daniel: That is a great question. My gut instinct is saying that, although it may seem like you're at an advantage, using AI, to improve your application, let's say, I think, fundamentally, if you're using AI for the purpose of trying to achieve something that you have had no input into yourself, then I think it would come to your disadvantage.
So what I mean by that is, I think, I guess I'll look back to your question. But when you look at, you know, even in a broader context, when you look at extracurriculars, where a student doesn't exactly contribute all that much, right? So for example, you know, they say something like, you know, they were part of this huge team and did this and that, if all they were involved with, you know, say, Oh, I interned at, you know, meta, for example, right, right.
But if all you did was serve coffee, and you can actually talk about anything that you're involved with, outside of, you know, just doing menial tasks, or you can even talk about what the meetings were like, and how you grew from them, then it's very tough to, you know, have that translate to a successful application. And so I think, although AI, can give you some sort of starting point, so for example, you know, it may give you ideas about, you know, doing XYZ, right?
So, you know, it can tell you things like if you focus on this, and, you know, here's a step-by-step process of how to do XYZ, right? If you don't actually do it, then you can't talk about it. And so there needs to be two components where, you know, sure, you can use AI. But if you don't have any tangible impact, it's very tough to say, and so the AI can't do the work for you, it can't read, make you a more mature person make you a better applicant, you still need to do the work, not only to be to be a good applicant, but I think to just be a competent human being. Because you can't say that you're this type of person without actually putting in the work.
Thomas: I like the answer. And I know I hit you there with a bit of a tough question. It's something that I think is debated in admissions circles, and my general feeling on it is, is that AI is a tool, right? For some people, it can help generate some ideas, can help generate some direction, especially one of the reasons we started I started this podcast was that I do a lot of pro bono work locally in Santa Barbara New Mexico, and I work with a lot of pro bono clients from around the US around the world.
And I wanted a broader platform to kind of share my expertise to help people much in the same way you were, you know, you're like, Oh, this is resonating. People need this and want this. And so I think AI definitely can help level the playing field a little bit with students that may not have access to expensive counselors, and, you know, maybe their school doesn't have an advising team embedded in it that is at the same level of, let's say, a more privileged High School.
But I do think that you know, the danger that I always point out to students with AI is that people have a very limited data set, right their value is very, very small. And so when they generate something from Ai, let's say an essay, it looks really good to them. And they show it to their parents and parents say it looks great. Their friends say it looks great. Their English teacher might even say it looks great. But what they lack is that perspective, right?
So you have much more perspective than a lot of people you've read, You said over 5000 applications, right? But when you put that in the macro context, you realize it's like, 10%, of an Ivy League's application flow in one season. Right? You start to see, oh, my gosh, there's this massive universe out there. Right of, of experiences and everything else. And so what looks good to you, writ large in the larger pool is very quickly discovered and discarded. Right, in the four and a half minutes admissions officers spend leading your file, it doesn't feel right, it feels a little too slick, right?
And you've seen this, when you're reading essays, you're like, you know, this just feels I can't get a grasp on this candidate. And so it makes sense that they have these results, even with these great extracurriculars, right, that there is absolutely room for AI, I think I do some venture investing into tech companies, I have a couple of AI admissions, you know, company's business plans in my inbox right now.
So people are trying to crack this. And I think there is a compelling market there. I just caution students to not over-rely on it. Right. And like you said, you can't AI can't make up for things you haven't done, it can't make up for a personality that you have not developed, or, or the work that you have not put in. So I think very well put on your part, and definitely coming from your experience, having read all these applications, so
Daniel: Admissions, that's really interesting. I guess, you know, you aren't able to talk about those companies on the podcast, but generally speaking, you know, if you have, you know, say you were trying to do something with within this space with AI, you know, what's, what would be your gut instinct? What do you think is the direction that we're headed in the future regarding the use of AI with admissions?
Thomas: So I think, you know, if I think back to the Stone Ages back when I was running admissions at Ford, and one of the things that that my fellow admissions directors and I would wrestle with was the fact that applications are the best system we have, they're a flawed system, but they're the best we have at this moment in time. Right.
And we know that people game the system, we know that there are inherent advantages, disadvantages, to the application process, and, you know, I look at a lot of your content that you're creating, and you definitely have a specific data set, right, it's a very specific kind of student that, you know, obviously, I don't know all the input, but the ones that make it, you know, to your content, are these really like dazzling superstars, right, that are doing all these cool things.
And I think that's great. I think, you know, in the macro, and we can talk about this another time, you know, macro, there's, there's this huge pool of people out there. And so that's why some of those students that where you're like, I can't believe this person didn't get in here, here and here. And so I think there's usually some underlying factors there.
But as far as as far as AI and admissions, you know, the conversation among the admissions directors was always, how do we get a real perspective on these people in a perfect world, You'd have everybody come in at that point, we didn't really have the remote technology.
So it was like everybody would come in, sit down, get a randomly generated essay prompt, and write an essay, right? Just to see like, what's your thought process? What's your intellectual curiosity? Who are you as a person right now that obviously has its own problems and its own flaws? I actually was involved in a company called Kira Technologies that was founded by these brilliant two Canadians. And it did real-time interviewing. So you would sit down, and it would generate an interview prompt, and you would have to respond right there to the interview prompt.
And the idea was to kind of get away from this pre-planned, overly edited, overly kind of constructed format. And, so I think the movement here is to kind of, you know, in all cases with admissions, you want to know the true person. Right? I mean, at the end of the day, you want to know who this person is the flaws, the the potential, and see how they fit into the class that you're trying to create.
So I think AI has a role on both sides. I'm not sure what that looks like. Right. Like, I know, you alluded to there. I've seen a lot of different takes on it. And I'm not a technologist. I'm not nearly smart enough to know what Which one is going to win? But I think that anything that removes those levels, the playing field, that removes the obstacles that, let's say, less privileged students face in this process is good. Right is good. And it creates opportunity. And it creates an opportunity, for everyone.
So I'm really, really just on a personal level. I'm very, very interested and very curious to see what happens when you go out to San Francisco when you're in the valley. You know, I've lived and worked in, in Cupertino for a while in venture space. There, you're absolutely right, there's an energy there, they're just you go out for coffee, you're meeting interesting people who are doing really crazy things. And so I'm really fascinated to see how you, you know, evolve this, you know, the initial thesis that you have and where that takes you.
Daniel: Yeah, absolutely. I think, in terms of leveling, leveling the playing field. That's, that's so true. And I think that was one of the things that I think, especially with dream school, that AI, you know, if we were able to address this properly, it could be, you know, very, very successful, where essentially, we'd be able to democratize admissions guidance for everybody, instead of just, you know, the top percentile of students who, you know, pay 1000s and 10,000s of dollars, for admissions guidance, you know, if we're able to level the playing field and give many students an opportunity, just to even understand what it takes, right, I think there's, there's a huge information gap.
And if we can use AI to more or less personalized experience for each student, I think that's where, you know, I see a lot of potential value with the use of AI. But, you know, even working on dream school, you know, for a little bit now with, I'm not technical, my co-founder is, our CTO, and just talking about the problems that, you know, that AI has, and when I mean problems, I mean, you know, the data that we have currently and how to set it up properly, how to make sure there's no bias, there's just so many issues, and it's just extremely difficult.
Even with the current buzz around AI, it's still very, very challenging to create it, actually, because it seems very easy. In with the idea of it, right? It's a lot of people, including myself, I thought, oh, okay, AI, it's like it, you know, you think of AI as this sort of all-powerful God almost right, where it can do anything that you ask it to? And it's like, well, no, it can't do that, you know, you have to make sure that the data is right, is his good, good enough? And, oh, it's all of that. And so it's a bit of a bigger challenge than I thought. So we'll have to see.
Thomas: I think it's exciting. You know, obviously, I had zero value on the technology side, but my doors always open. If you have questions on the admission side, I would love to stay in touch on that.
Daniel: It'll be lovely. It'd be amazing.
Thomas: So one last personal question, because I want to be respectful of your time. What is next for you? Yes, you know, San Francisco. Are you looking at like a deferred admission? MBA, one of those programs? Are you kind of going? What do you think?
Daniel: It's a great question. I mentioned earlier that I am at a place I think in my life where, you know, with my content, I have, you know, a bit of a moat and a bit of a safety cushion, to fall back on for me to be able to take more high-risk opportunities. And so even if dream school fails, I think so, okay, so in the short term, I still plan to go back to school in the spring, which I'm able to graduate on time, which is very nice because I have taken a couple of summer courses.
And with AP quarter with AP credit, I'll be able to graduate on time, you know, in seven semesters. So once I finished in the spring, you know, probably scope out the field. I think one of the things I guess I forgot to mention about SF is even if it's not with my dream school, I think it would be very cool to see what kind of opportunities are out there and I think joining another startup could be another interesting idea to explore. I think, you know, with my skill set, which is, you know, primarily with social media and marketing and getting people interested in the topic and sort of more top-of-funnel things, I think I could provide some interesting value for brands doesn't even need to be an ad tech.
But perhaps an interesting, direct consumer startup catches my eye and you know, I mesh well with the founders, and it seems like an exciting opportunity that could be a potential bathroom in the future as well.
Thomas: I love it. If this were an episode of Limmy Talk’s, we would say one of the most interesting and unique candidates we've ever spoken to, or seen, and you're not going to believe where this is where this guy is going. Now, I will stay tuned. For part two, I can't see the I can't wait to see the results. I wish you well, you know, I love it's so exciting to see you following your dreams.
And I think, you know, inspirational to hundreds of 1000s of listeners and followers that you have. I think they're watching you as closely as you're watching them. And I think it's going to be a great adventure. So we wish you all the best. And let me thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today.
Daniel: Thank you so much, Thomas. It's been a pleasure. I really, really enjoyed being on the podcast was I had a great time. Thank you.
Thomas: Thank you for joining us today. Please take a moment to subscribe to the admittedly podcast and download this episode. I welcome you to share your thoughts and questions with me. You can find us on social media at @admittedlypodcast. I look forward to continuing our journey together.
