S2E22: How to Address Learning Disabilities and Accommodations with Chris Holloway, Educational Psychologist
In this episode host Thomas Caleel welcomes Chris Holloway, a licensed educational psychologist.
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In this episode host Thomas Caleel welcomes Chris Holloway, a licensed educational psychologist with 16 years of experience in assessing and supporting students with disabilities.
Chris's expertise in educational psychology and counseling, along with his dedication to tailoring assessments and strategies for each student, makes him a valuable resource for families seeking to understand and address their unique needs.
Join us as we delve into the world of educational psychology and the importance of accommodations for students with disabilities.
Key Points:
Comprehensive Assessments: Chris specializes in conducting comprehensive assessments for students with disabilities, providing detailed insights into their strengths and weaknesses.
Individualized Plans: Through these assessments, Chris helps create individualized plans for students, tailoring strategies to improve their academic, social, and emotional performance.
Accommodations and Advocacy: Chris emphasizes the importance of accommodations and advocacy for students with disabilities, ensuring they have equal access to education and support.
Transition to College: As students transition to college, Chris highlights the significance of updated assessments to secure appropriate accommodations and navigate the post-secondary education system effectively.
International Students: Chris clarifies that students with disabilities, including international students, are entitled to accommodations and protection against discrimination in the United States.
About Chris Holloway
Chris Holloway is Licensed by the California Board of Behavioral Sciences as an Educational Psychologist and is a founding member of The Learning Detectives: Holloway Psychological and Educational Services.
Chris has a Master’s of Science in Educational Psychology and Counseling along with a Credential in School Psychology. Chris has 16 years of experience in this field and has conducted well over 1000 assessments for students with wide-ranging disabilities.
His experience working with students from Pre-K through High School along with college students and those in private schools allows for a broad perspective that deepens his understanding of how to help students with disabilities.
Chris is passionate about conducting detailed and meaningful assessments that ultimately aide students (and their families) to have a deeper understanding of their unique needs and how to advocate for themselves in order to progress academically, social and emotionally. You can reach him at hollowaypsyched@gmail.com
About Thomas
Thomas is a parent and alumnus of the University of Pennsylvania. After earning his MBA at the Wharton School in 2003, he moved to Silicon Valley. For three years, he was director of admissions and financial aid at Wharton School. He worked closely with admissions professionals, students, alumni, and professors to create the best possible MBA class.
Thomas has been an entrepreneur his entire life in the fields of finance, agriculture, wellness, and sporting goods. As the founder of Global Education Opportunities, he works with diverse and underserved communities to help them become successful college students. Thomas started the podcast Admittedly because he is passionate about demystifying the application process for parents and applicants.
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Thomas: Welcome to the admittedly podcast. I'm your host, Thomas Caleel. And today I'm very excited to welcome a very dear friend of mine, Chris Holloway. Chris is licensed by the California Board of Behavioral Sciences as an educational psychologist and is a founding member of the learning detectives Holloway, psychological and educational services. Chris has a master's degree of science in educational psychology, and counseling along with a credential in School Psychology.
Chris has 16 years of experience in this field and has conducted well over 1000 assessments for students with wide-ranging disabilities. His expertise working with students from pre-K through high school, along with college students, and those in private schools allows for a broad perspective that deepens his understanding of how to help students with disabilities. Chris is passionate about conducting detailed meaningful assessments that ultimately aid students and their families in having a deeper understanding of their unique needs, and how to advocate for themselves in order to progress academically, socially, and emotionally. Chris, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us today.
Chris Holloway: Thank you so much for having me, this is a very important topic. And I'm glad to be here to shed some light on it.
Thomas: But instead of me telling, telling the audience what you do, Chris, in your own words, kind of what is it that you do?
Chris Holloway: So as an educational psychologist, in the school system, where I have worked for 16 years, I do a variety of things, including assessments, we do counseling, working with teachers planning, and interventions, working with students' behavior, their social and emotional profile, and how we can improve their motivation, their engagement, ultimately, to get them to perform to their, their best personal potential, whether with a disability or without a disability.
But with my private practice, the learning detectives, as you mentioned, we specialize mainly in the assessment portion and doing bespoke assessments really detailed, personalized assessments to really get at each student's strengths, and weaknesses, and to determine really what they could use or need to get over the hump, and really improve their performance and all of those domains, but also to determine what types of services or recommendations we can offer to them in terms of patients are working with the schools that they're attending.
Thomas: So if I'm understanding correctly, if I'm looking at and you and I are both parents, so we know the challenges every day of like how you view your, your own child, what you see. And sometimes what you don't see is that you're actually working with some students who have let's say, a more, and I apologize for using the incorrect terminology. So you're going to jump in and correct me but a more like a more significant or pronounced issue, right, that needs a significant accommodation, all the way to families that maybe are looking at their children and saying, You know what, you know, can we do this? Could we ease this stress or anxiety on our child, you know, you're almost like a high-level performance coach, like almost like a linear, like NFL level, where you're really fine-tuning and saying, Okay, how does this child process information? And how can we put them in a situation where they, you know, do their very best? Am I understanding that correctly?
Chris Holloway: Yes, you know, in the school district, there's a charge, you know, the law specifies that assessments must be conducted, free of charge for parents, and those assessments I conduct all the time. And those assessments are very well thought out, good assessments for many things, but mainly for the charge, like you're saying, of special education, or someone who has a suspected disability. In my private practice, we definitely do that. And that is one of our main focuses, we dive a little bit deeper, I feel, and try to find out a little bit more.
But we also do what you're saying, which is looking into, you know, parents who are concerned, there may be a disability, there may not be and we conduct the assessment. And even if there's not an identified disability, we learn so much about that student's strengths and weaknesses, that we can come up with a tailored plan to, you know, work on all of the weak areas that may not be disabling, but still may be slowing down their performance to where they want to go in their life. So it's a meaningful process either way.
Thomas: Oh, absolutely, and on the private client side, is this something that is it something that takes a day, or two days? How long do you usually work? What is that process? What does that look like?
Chris Holloway: Yeah, that's a great question. I think that sometimes, you know, due to the medical model that we're all familiar with going to our doctor, there's a little bit of misunderstanding sometimes from parents that I like to clarify right off the bat that it is a long process. I'm to do it correctly, I don't like to overburden the student, I want to get accurate data.
So I want to make sure they have breaks, make sure that we do it over, you know, periods of time, several days of assessment, and then it takes a long time to not only score, analyze, interpret results, and then we write up a full report with recommendations as well, which takes some time. So, the whole process from start to finish usually takes around a month to two months, depending on the case, okay? also depends on you know, how many assessments are being conducted at the same time, but we like to put so much care into it, it does take a little bit longer than maybe parents are accustomed to, it's not like a blood test, go into, you know, write the thing in your arm and get the blood results in a couple of days, it's actually a lot of inferential measures. So it's sensitive to us having a good rapport with the student and making sure that they're buying into the process and not guessing and undervaluing their scores because then it makes it much more difficult to interpret.
So we'd like to get everything done. Just so I like to say, just make it as best possible for each student. So yeah, I think that it's something that the time is worthwhile. Every moment put into this process, yields, benefits, I believe, that are greater than the time spent. So I think although a process, it is something that is a meaningful process for most parents, and students as well.
Thomas: you know, I've found that as a parent, I found that in my own life that really, you know, that kind of external view, that external analysis is very helpful, right, it really gives you, you know, you can't go forward, you can't grow unless you know, where you're starting from. Alright. And so let's say I send my child to you, we do a full assessment, then what do I What do I do with those results? And that's a broad question, right? Because it's a wide range of results. But what's the what am I? What do parents do with those results?
Chris Holloway: I can give you some examples of what parents and, you know, clients that I've had have done with them, and maybe give a good sampling for those. But um, there are students, like I said, that are in public school, and maybe the parents believe they, they want them to be assessed for special education, they have a disability, and they want to investigate that. And the school doesn't see it that way. And they're kind of stalling or not really going forward with an assessment. So they will contract out with a private assessor to not only determine whether or not their Inkling was correct but to figure out ways to help their child in the interim. And also they can provide that report to the public school. And that would be an impetus for possibly starting the school assessment anyway.
So, it's one way to get the information on another side and also help facilitate movement from the school district if there happens to be no movement. Another option is a lot of times private schools, parents that have their students in a private school or parochial school, those schools if they don't take public funding, don't even oftentimes offer accommodations a lot of them do nowadays, special education is not delivered a free and appropriate public education, as they call it in the law is not delivered in private schools. It's a public school entity. And some of those parents are really, they try to keep them and they want them to have that private school education.
So, to get the assessment of the school for free, but to keep them in the private school, they contract out to get that assessment done privately. And then also, a lot of times students who are on what is called IEP Individual Education Plans, which is special education, or on 504 plans, which are Accommodation Plans for students with disabilities in the public school or private school, they actually will ask for an assessment when they enter the post-secondary world into a college because the college Office of Disabilities will ask them to either re-update their assessment or give them additional information to provide them accommodations in that world. So they contract with us to kind of do an updated assessment. So those are three of the biggest reasons. I'm sure there's more.
Thomas: Oh, there's always more, and just to clarify, for our listeners, when you say accommodations, are you talking about like extra time or not taking accommodations? And what are some examples?
Chris Holloway: That's a great question. So accommodations are in a nutshell, anything that is going to allow someone to access or gain the same level of access to a program or to the curriculum as their non-disabled peers. So in disability, the disability world when you talk about students with disabilities, allowing them to have an accommodation is allowing them to have equal access. So for instance, the physical distance ability of someone who happens to be in a wheelchair. A physical building accommodation is a ramp to allow that student to roll up the ramp and get in to physically access the building to be educated. On the educational accommodation side, it may be a student with ADHD who has difficulty focusing.
So when accommodation could be placing that child in the front of the classroom near where the teacher is teaching so that they have more committee, their focus is better, they may need repetition of instructions because they often forget quickly, they may need a copy of the notes. Students with deaf and hard of hearing difficulties may need a sign language interpreter, and so on and so forth. So yes, accommodations can be wide-ranging. And it really varies on what entity is working with the student as to what is provided. It's it's a broad area.
Thomas: Okay, and one thing I would like to just make a quick aside because I do get a lot of questions on this. When you are applying to a school it's a private grade school, private, high school, private college, or university. A lot of times, the parents will ask me Well, do we want to disclose these things want to disclose these learning disabilities? You know, does that put my student at a disadvantage? And the answer is a resounding no. You know, it's part of your child's journey.
And if they've had to overcome some of these challenges, it says a lot, you know, a B, from somebody who has struggled with, you know, a learning disability worked with somebody like you, Chris discovered what that was, and then gotten treatment for it is a far more meaningful grade than a B from somebody who just kind of coasting along. And so it's very important to disclose that. And I think part of the work you do with IEPs, and documenting all this speaks directly to that, right? So they have, if I'm correct, a body of, of like legal documents that go with them through the school system that kind of inform the schools as to what accommodations they should be receiving?
Chris Holloway: Yes, I think that's a great point. And if I could expand upon that, thinking about a parent, and if you're a parent listening, who has a child who has a disability, or you think they may have a disability, I would urge you to, you know, investigate that use whatever means you have whether it is there in public school, and you need an assessment, or even Well, well, prior to an assessment, a lot of schools have interventions that they put in place for students to try to help them succeed, apart from a disability apart from any of these accommodations, but if it gets to the point where they have an identified disability, they need accommodations, the work that it takes throughout K through 12, in that public school to utilize these accommodations, to find out what is useful for your specific child, because you can have a litany of accommodations. One works well, for one child, one works well for another, both students have ADHD, and it's a completely different child, it's a different person, the disability doesn't define the person, it's just a part of the person's journey like you said.
So work with the schools that you're working with a private school, public school, whatever they have to offer, whatever they can document on paper, and try to refine that over time as they approach the transition to college or post-secondary life, if that's an aspiration they have, and make sure that you're getting the best versions of what works for your child documented on those documents. Obviously, in junior year, and senior year, they're taking a lot of different tests that they have aspirations for college essay, t 80. They're trying to prepare for those things. And they're already needed in school time and a half, let's say, or double time.
And they haven't documented that. When someone comes to me and we do an assessment, even if I can document everything, they're still going to look at the documentation from the school and see if it was actually applied in real life in the school setting. Right? I could say they need double time. But the school is only ever offered time and a half. Oftentimes, the entity is going to lean on what was given in the school setting, because that's what really was practically necessary. So the point is, the takeaway is, document what you can refine what you can, and make sure that it's the most updated version. So that way when they enter college life or even trying to get into college life with assessments, those things are the right tools for your child to succeed. If that makes sense.
Thomas: No, it makes a lot of sense. And you raise really good points in terms of you know, when you're talking about the entities and they, you're referring to the essay T A C T that does need to be documented. They are going to usually rely on what the school is giving and you need to start that process early. So for parents to start that process, you know, get ahead of that process. You don't want to be scrambling at the last minute.
And then when your child does get to university, you have to approach the Learning Center, there is the office of students with disabilities, you need to register, you need to give them the documentation, you need to get letters from them. And then you need to disclose that to your professors, day one, because you can't go back and retroactively say, Oh, I was supposed to get the time and a half, because, in the interest of fairness, those professors can't just upend their grading system, because you were not, you know, paying attention and doing what you needed to do.
Chris Holloway: Exactly. And a lot of times any of these institutions, a lot of the accommodations come from the Americans with Disabilities Act, or a law called Section 504 of the 1973 Rehabilitation Act. So those are laws that any entity that's taking public funds, federal funds has to provide these accommodations and not discriminate against students with disabilities.
But like you're saying, they do require time to review the documentation, they may say you don't have sufficient documentation, which is what I was mentioning, where parents will come to me and my students starting in two months, can you assess them over the summer, I need this assessment updated, so they can receive the accommodations they dearly need. And in fairness, these are equity builders, building an equal playing field for students with disabilities. I know a lot of times, even teachers and other people that I have encountered keep mentioning to me, that this is giving unfair advantages to students with disabilities to get this extra time on tests, and so on and so forth.
But I look at it the opposite way where every person needs what they need to have an equal playing field. And if they have that disability, the extra time is just giving them that equal opportunity and not actually penalizing them for having a disability. So definitely do your homework. I would also say along the topic, parents, when you know that your student is looking into secondary education, if that's an aspiration, and they have favorites, you have favorites, you have places you want them to go, private schools, public schools, you may have a mix of both, please start calling look on the websites. All of these offices have disabilities at each school, because the accommodations that they offer vary wildly, and not due to just them, maybe not wanting to provide it, but they have the right to refuse accommodations if it's an undue burden to them or their program.
So some programs just don't have as many resources as others. So if you have a child who really requires a specific accommodation, please look for that, before you start applying to certain institutions so that you're not disappointed, or the student is not disappointed or ill-prepared to enroll.
Thomas: Those are great points. And you also in that last block, hit on two very important words. And I'd like to kind of just go back and probe a little bit further. The first, and I definitely want to put you on the spot here. But you said you know, you talked about giving an unfair advantage. And what I'm seeing now is some of the really like more elite, private high schools are saying no accommodations for anyone because they're certainly and we both are aware of this parent who has gamed the system who have you know, let's say, you know, assessment shopped until they found somebody willing to write them an assessment and got their child extra time to give them an advantage, academically, which I think we both agree is unethical and wrong and unfair to those students who need it.
But now some of the schools and I won't name names are just coming out and saying no accommodations, period. It's an undue burden, as you said, we're not doing it. And that to me, you know, as an educator, I find that while I understand it, the business mind of me understands the rationality, the ratio the rationale for it. But I just find that just damaging to the students who truly need this.
Chris Holloway: Yes, and I don't know. And it is not necessary to name specific schools. But I do know that the Americans with Disabilities Act, Title Two covers all public schools, including the special education law on top of that, including the Bible for law on top of that, so in a public school, there are immense amounts of protections, but may not be where that parent wants to educate their child. Right, then you go to the private school, private school, Title Three of the Americans with Disabilities Act, protects those students from discrimination, and basically, private schools do have to provide accommodations. However, if it is a school that is religious in nature, or has a parochial nature to it, and does not take any federal funding at all. There is no option to provide the accommodations.
So based on the burden, maybe it's an undue burden of people gaming the system too much and there's inequity and it causes their students and their boards maybe to be up in RMS, that may be a reason why. But yes, I think that if your child does need that, and you have encountered that issue where someone is unwilling to provide accommodations, then looking for a different school where they can be supported, I believe is important. And obviously, for parents, yes, I know, it's anxiety-provoking to not have an answer about why your child is not performing to where you think they should be, or where they could be.
But yes, it's a process that we want to be very ethical about and very methodical about, and make sure that we're doing it all the right way. And if they don't have a disability, then we have to work within whatever general confines of whatever school you're working in and use whatever those general resources are. Because of disabilities, accommodations aren't appropriate.
Thomas: When I appreciate you drawing that, you know, very bright line between the private and the public school system, you know, I can tell you from a purse from personal example, I have friends who have children who do need accommodations, and they've actually moved their children into the public school system because the cost of what the support their child needs in private school because they have to pay for that out of pocket plus the tuition, it's just too much.
And so you know, they shift to the private schools, because the private schools do have this legal structure in this legally mandated structure in place to help them through and, and so you know, I think parents need to make the best decision. And you've said this several times for themselves and their family, you know, what works best for them?
Chris Holloway: Yeah, and I think that to expand on that, I think it's important for parents to also know that the context that you're bringing up, that may be the example you're bringing up, students have wide-ranging levels of disabilities, some may be mild or minor, you may say some more moderate, or severe. And if they're in K through 12, school, and the school that they're going to admit, maybe it's a private school that does not provide the services that their child needs, they do need to maybe consider the jump back to a public school. We're talking broadly about accommodations, which are really just, it's not modifying the actual level of work that is expected from a student.
But in K through 12. World, if they're on a special education plan, an IEP. And they also your disabilities, there are actually allowances to modify the curriculum, which is another another level above a combination thing, okay, modify that work down to a level that the child can understand and grasp. It also provides related services such as speech therapy, occupational therapy, and adaptive PE, if they have physical PE needs they can access regular PE. So those things are not part of typical Accommodation Plans. And none of those things flow beyond graduation into post-secondary world. Those are things your child needs, you need to hit them hard, while they're in K through 12. Because if they want to go secondary, they're only going to receive the accommodations, which may be meaningful, but depending on the disability, maybe not enough. So it's something that definitely parents should be thinking about. In the K 12. World. For sure, it is great advice. For sure.
Thomas: It is great advice. Thank you. You know, I have one more question for you. Because I want to be respectful of your time. You use the word you said the word updating, right, we're an update an IEP, how often, let's say I have a child in grade school, see something that we want to get, you know, get evaluated you do the assessment, we get the IEP, do we need to reassess again, kind of in high school at some point and then in college? Or are these things kind of like, part of the DNA the structure and they don't change? What would you recommend?
Chris Holloway: So that's a good question. I think I'll start with the public entity and what is typically done in the K through 12, public school for special education purposes. Okay, I think it should be done more in a bureaucratic way to make sure that they require the services. So the services are done, every the assessments are done every three years. So let's say that's for special education, and they qualify, that would be the initial assessment, and they have an annual meeting every year to update goals and services.
And every three years there's a reassessment that takes place to determine if is it still the correct eligibility. Are these still the scores that we're looking at similar, and it helps plan for that individual plan for the students, so every three years, sometimes that leads to an exit where they no longer qualify for special education and they're exited from the plant. on the private side, what we're doing with the learning detectives are private assessments that our parents are paying out of pocket for, and it's a different reason they may be doing that assessment. And those assessments are done mainly for like I said, disability awareness for possible accommodations for identifying a disability, and those are as needed. There's no requirement for how often they should be done.
But yes, if there's a really outdated assessment, and they're approaching College, those offices of disabilities need assessments done usually within the past year. So it definitely should be done as you're approaching graduation if that's not been done. At times, it may be just a portion of the assessment that needs to be redone, as dictated by the Office of Disabilities based on their criteria. The only other thing I would say is, that if the parent suspects, another disability, or a change or a shift, oftentimes students are just dealing with learning issues in elementary, but that may have morphed into more social and emotional difficulties in high school. And that social and emotional piece may need to be looked into that wasn't present before in elementary. So it really depends on the context of the student, and how they're presenting.
Thomas: High up, I can't thank you enough, there's clearly so much here, and we just there's this little bit of an iceberg peeking out, you know, over the top of the water that we touched on and I know that you know, from knowing you, you could go on for literally days, this is a field you have deep expertise, and you care very deeply about and I love that you go between the public and the private sector, and really kind of doing good on on both sides of that. We're going to get a lot of questions on this.
And so we're going to put your, the learning detectives, email in the show notes, and make sure people have your contact information. Because I think you're just a tremendous resource for families in need. Before we sign off, is there anything that haven't had a chance to say that you think really, parents and students need to know?
Chris Holloway: I think it's all of this is very personal. Having a disability is a journey, on the personal side for the student. It's an emotional journey, maybe even a grief journey on the side of the parent, and I think parents oftentimes don't give themselves enough time or credit to how it may impact them. And I think it's important that they if they feel those things, seek out their own assistance or help to deal with that, so that they're truly advocating for their child from the right place. On top of that, I think that it's something that a parent may not want to disclose, as you mentioned before, to someone, but without the disclosure, the help will not be readily available.
So it's a journey to cross that threshold, maybe. But I think it's a meaningful threshold to cross if appropriate.And the last thing is just two little niche things that I didn't mention. But in the college world, they cannot any entity cannot discriminate against students who have disabilities, regardless of what program you're enrolled in credit-bearing noncredit bearing, regardless of your national origin, ethnicity, your race. So if you're coming from another country, as an international student, a lot of people have asked, do I get the same accommodations and disabilities as American students? And yes, you do. Great question. entity-based, not nationality-based. So additional aside, but like you said, tip of the iceberg. So there's a lot there.
Thomas: Well, you know, but just a pause on that. I think that's very, very important because I work with students and families from countries where learning disabilities are not even acknowledged. Right? And, there's no acknowledgment that schools pretend it doesn't exist, there's no support in the country. And those parents don't love their children any less or Right. In fact, they want more for them. And so the United States has become, you know, sending their children to school here has become an opportunity for some of them to get them the help and resources that they need that would otherwise be absolutely unavailable in their home country. So I'm very glad you brought that up. Thank you.
Chris Holloway: Yeah. And I think that from my end, the last thing I'll say is those assessments at times, can be tricky on our end when we conduct them very meaningful because there are oftentimes different languages spoken different exposures, and curriculum than students in the United States. And oftentimes, the tests we use are called normed on students from the United States population. So to diagnose the disability takes a lot of great care time and analysis to make sure we're doing it right. And that's why, you know, we pride ourselves on the time we put into our assessments to make sure we do it exactly that way.
Thomas: Because of the students of mine that you've worked with, I'm always amazed at the care that you take, and then the change. You know, we've seen, you've changed lives for several of our students, and I really appreciate that. It's Something I don't I don't say lightly. So thank you for what you do. I think we're going to have a lot of people asking you to come back and talk to us more about this. And I hope we can get some time on your schedule. But thank you very much, Chris Holloway, of the learning detectives. Again, your contact information will be in the show notes, and can't thank you enough for all you do.
Chris Holloway: Yeah, I'd be glad to do it again. Thank you so much.
