S02 EP05: SAT scores, Legacy Admissions, Common App Essay Topics & More: Answering Your Questions for College Applications
In this episode, Thomas is diving into some common questions about college admissions and applications this time of year.
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In this episode, our host Thomas Caleel is diving into some common questions about college admissions and applications this time of year.
Want to submit a question? Send us a DM on Instagram @admittedlypodcast or email us at hello@thomascaleel.com
Question 1: What SAT or ACT score do I need?
Standardized testing requirements have evolved, especially after COVID. Many schools now consider a holistic approach to admissions, seeking to increase diversity and offer opportunities for students to present themselves in the best light. For some, taking the test may help bolster their academics, while for others, it could demonstrate their capabilities during challenging times.
There's no specific score requirement for all schools. Look at the schools you're interested in and check their admissions statistics to understand their average LSAT and ACT scores. Be realistic about where you stand academically and what the data show for each school.
Question 2: What are Legacy Admissions?
Legacy admissions refer to the practice of considering applicants who have family members, like parents or siblings, who attended the same school. While some institutions still consider legacy status, many are moving away from it, focusing on merit and diversity instead. There are excellent schools that don't factor in legacy, so consider your options carefully.
Question 3: What should I write about in my Common App essay?
When crafting your Common App essay, avoid clichés and dig deep to find your unique voice. Show the admissions committee your strategy and what you want to convey about yourself. Avoid reading too many sample essays, as it can influence your writing and prevent you from standing out. Tell your own story, embrace your hardships, and be authentic.
Question 4: Should I disclose my learning accommodations on my application?
Yes, it's advisable to disclose any learning challenges or accommodations you have received in your application. Colleges want to create a welcoming environment for all students, and sharing this information can provide context to your achievements and challenges.
Question 5: How can I pick a major?
Selecting a major doesn't mean deciding your lifelong career. Think about the classes you excel in and enjoy the most. Consider your passions and what subjects you want to explore further. Research majors at your desired schools and find a good fit that aligns with your interests.
About Thomas
Thomas is a parent and alumnus of the University of Pennsylvania. After earning his MBA at the Wharton School in 2003, he moved to Silicon Valley. For three years, he was director of admissions and financial aid at Wharton School. He worked closely with admissions professionals, students, alumni, and professors to create the best possible MBA class.
Thomas has been an entrepreneur his entire life in the fields of finance, agriculture, wellness, and sporting goods. As the founder of Global Education Opportunities, he works with diverse and underserved communities to help them become successful college students. Thomas started the podcast Admittedly because he is passionate about demystifying the application process for parents and applicants.
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Hello, and welcome to the admittedly podcast. My name is Thomas Caleel. I'm the former director of MBA admissions and financial aid for my alma mater, the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. In this podcast, I don't promise easy answers or quick fixes. But I will use my decades of experience to help you achieve your education goals. Now, let's get started.
Today, we're going to talk through some of the many questions that we've been getting recently, from our listeners, we have this just wonderful, very active, and evolving listener base, and they're constantly sending us questions, trying to figure out the admissions process responding to things that I've said, or a guest has said, on the podcast. And I want to make sure that we honor those questions and pay attention to them.
So we've taken a selection. And we'll keep working through these questions throughout the year. Please keep an eye out for a question of the week, a shorter podcast just to kind of jump in and answer a listener's question. So let's start with the first one listener from New York asks, What LSAT or ACT score, do I need? Very simple, and very to the point. And let's start by saying, of course, that not all schools require standardized testing. So big change during COVID. And I think one that many schools have decided to keep, I think that they look at it as a way to increase intellectual socio-economic diversity in the class. And a way to give various students the opportunity to present themselves in the best possible light.
Now, if you are going, let's say to a private school, in a good neighborhood, upper middle class, middle-class background, I would say that not taking the test may work against you, there will be questions about why you weren't, didn't take the test? Why didn't you prepare? Because you're in an environment that supports and encourages and is aware of testing. So that's something to consider. If you take the test and you don't do well, be sure to mention that in the Additional Information essay, it's okay to say, look, I tried I prepared I studied, I took the test several times and just couldn't get a good score. And I've chosen not to submit it.
If you think that the test, however, is going to bolster your academics, let's say you have good grades, and you say you know what, I'm going to take the test just to reinforce that great if you maybe have a wobble in your grades, your year was not so strong, you might decide to take the test as a way to prove to the admissions committee Hey, I know my sophomore year wasn't great. I had a lot of things going on in my life. And of course, we're going to address that in an essay. But let me take the test just to demonstrate to you my capabilities.
So there are a lot of options there for not taking or taking the test. But I'm not answering the question. The question specifically asked, What score do I need? There's no specific hard and fast rule here. Look at the schools you're considering and go take a look at their admissions statistics and see what the average LSAT and ACT scores are. What is the range? Okay, and be realistic about that. A lot of people will look at the average score. And in their mind, even though they know that it's average in their mind, that's the minimum bar. And it's very important to realize that with any average there are scores above and scores below. Be realistic. If a school's average, LSAT, for example, is 1300, and you score 600. You may not want to submit that score.
In fact, I would encourage you not to submit that score. But if you got a 1200 and or 1150. You're not out of the running, right? Because if you look at the score range, it's probably somewhere between 900 to 1600. Right? So you're well within the range or comfortable within the range. So I think to be realistic, right? Look, look at what the data show and make your best decision based on where you are academically, what your background is, and how well you did on the particular test.
Please also note that some schools will allow you to super score that is pick the best sectional score from the several SATs or ACT's that you've taken, that can really kind of highlight your ability to perform on the standardized test. And that's something you might want to take advantage of. Okay, question number two comes from Texas, and certainly was in response to the New York Times article recently, that touched on legacy admissions and looked at income disparity in incoming and graduating classes in what they referred to as Ivy Plus schools.
What is legacy mean? Legacy meant means that an immediate member of your family attended the school father, mother, sister, brother, certainly the ivy plus institutions, many of them do consider legacy as a data point. Okay, it's not what it used to be in that, you know, having several generations attend the school is an automatic in for that, I would encourage you to Google John F. Kennedy's admissions essay to Harvard, for a little bit of a laugh.
But legacy, we can't pretend that legacy does not have an impact on certain schools. But there are many, many schools out there many exceptional schools. And if you look at the large, for example, state universities, some of which are truly exceptional, some of the best universities in the world, they do not consider legacy. And so that might be an option for you as well. You'll also you're we're also seeing more and more of the top-tier schools, specifically coming out against legacy admissions, I would say the forerunner, the leader on that is MIT. So you may want to consider that as well. Oh, look, this school does not give any preference for legacy. And so my disadvantage, is if we want to call it that there is rendered null and void. Okay.
Question number three comes to us from California. And this person writes, What should I write on my common app? Essay? What should it be about? It's that time of year, it's currently the end of July, the new common app opens on August 1, and students are getting a little bit nervous, right? And there's, there's a lot of advice out there. And I think something that I find very dangerous, is going in and reading other people's essays. And you see this all over on TikTok on Instagram on the internet, Google, you know, college admissions essays. And you read purportedly successful essays from students. And I think that when you look at those essays in a bubble, just one-off, it's very hard to understand what the entirety, it's impossible to understand what the entirety of the application looks like.
And so you don't really get a sense of what the admissions officer is seeing or thinking when they are decisions. In that file, you're seeing one little snapshot, and certainly, you'll see some examples of excellent prose and excellent writing. But what I find is, when you're reading other people's essays, you subconsciously will begin to mimic them. It's, just a human condition, right? It's hardwired into our lizard brains. And so I would caution you against reading too many essays, I would tell you to take those essays with a grain of salt. We've dived on an episode already on chat GPT, please do not use chat GPT, it will turn out something that is technically correct, and your parents will probably like it. But in the Mas de Lucia 50 60,000, plus applications at the top schools are looking at, you definitely will not stand out in any way.
What I want you to do is find your voice. Again, we've talked about this many times. Right? What is your strategy? What do you need to convey to the admissions committee? What are you trying to tell them about yourself, I really need you to push beyond the cliche. I was talking to a student the other day and they said, Well, I started this business. And what I really want to do is talk about my tenacity and perseverance and build this business. And I talked to the student and I said, Well, okay, but how are your tenacity and perseverance any different than athletes who reach you know, state-level recognition or overcome an injury, or musicians who start a band and maybe get a record deal or self-published a, an album.
So, you know, these are all things that you have to kind of go down to core principles and pull it apart. And through the conversation, what we realized is that this student loved finding cracks, loved finding inefficiencies in things and going in and saying, okay, not only can I how can I do this better, but how can I innovate on this right because something's broken here. If the consumer is telling me there's something not working here, so how do I figure out what they need? How do I think two steps beyond? And then how do I provide that for them? And that is a much more interesting essay than just how I persevered and overcame hardship.
Now, certainly, there are students for whom hardship is an integral part of their story. And embrace that lean into it, tell your story, speak your truth. But don't get caught up in what I would say are cliches don't take the first thing that pops to mind. Don't take the easy path. And beware, as well have too many voices in the essay. You're welcome to let your parents read your essay, and you're welcome to let your English teacher if they want to read your essay, but I would politely ask them to not make edits. They can give you verbal feedback, but the minute they start editing, you destroy the element of your voice, you destroy the flow of the essay as an experienced reader, I promise you I can read the essay and tell where your voice stops and another voice has been layered on top of it. Okay, we're on a roll here.
Question number four. And this is a very, very interesting question. This is also from California. I have accommodations at school for a diagnosed learning issue, should I tell the colleges that I'm applying to? Okay, I understand that not everyone is comfortable talking about a learning challenge or an IEP, or a diagnosis that they've received. I respect that. But schools, colleges, and universities are just like your high schools, they want to help you they want to provide a welcoming learning environment where you can succeed, they're there to teach you and they understand that each of us has a different way in which we process and retain information.
So My strong preference is absolutely we want to, we want to be very upfront with us. And the common app usually gives us an essay for additional information. And that's where you can talk about how we don't need to be overly dramatic, we don't need to make a big deal out of it. But simply saying, Look, I have an IEP or I receive these specific accommodations. This is how if you're comfortable saying this, this is what I've been diagnosed with. And this is how I have created different systems processes, whether it's tutoring or special highlighting that you do or note-taking, conversations or whatever it is that you do, or extra meetings with your teachers.
But this is how I have learned to excel, right hand in hand with my diagnosis. And the colleges appreciate that it will put your achievements in perspective, if maybe you had a bump in there and your transcript, you might talk about how you changed your approach. Perhaps you change your medication, or perhaps you changed the way that you approach your exams or homework. If you've excelled in school, then it really lets the university know Hey, despite these challenges, this student really, really brought everything and did fantastic.
So I am absolutely in favor of disclosing. I'm not sure that I would make that a full common FSA unless the Learning Challenge is an integral part of your day-to-day existence. Because I think that there's more to you than that. And it belongs primarily in the Additional Information section. Keep it short and sweet. Maybe 200-250 words would be my guideline, don't use all the space available. As I go say often, Mark Twain, I would have written you a shorter letter, but I didn't have the time. Brevity is difficult. Being concise is difficult, but it's greatly appreciated by the readers.
Question number five comes to us from Chicago, Illinois. And they ask how can I pick a major. And look, you know, I understand that, and the first thing I always tell students is, we're not asking you what you want to do for the rest of your life. Now, there are some professions, engineering, and medicine less so.
But for certain professions, you kind of need to start computer science you need to start in college. Can you go back and learn it afterward? Of course. But if you want to be an electrical engineer, right, you're you get your BS in electrical engineering, you go and get your Master perhaps even a Ph.D. It's kind of hard to migrate your way over to engineering if you majored in art history. Alright. Medical School has gotten a lot more flexible along the lines of law school where you can as long as you take the cert prerequisite courses can major in pretty much anything you want. Take the MCAT, or the LSAT and you know, make that next step into graduate school.
But by large colleges teaching you how to think, how to develop arguments how to defend arguments, you know how to be much more mature in your thinking and reasoning skills. And so what I would tell you is, first of all, think about the classes you excel in, think about the things you enjoy doing. What are the classes that you spend extra time on? Because you can't get enough.
So if you're in the chemistry lab, extra hours if you're staying late after school if you're going to office hours if you bought a chemistry kit, and did you know experiments at home, if you spent your summer doing research or working in a lab, or attending chemistry classes, then that's something where you're like, Okay, this is a passion of mine, this is something I truly care about, and something that I want to study in college. If you're unsure, you can choose undeclared. That's a little bit risky in my book because I think that if you spend the time looking at the majors if you look at the websites, you can start to get a sense of Ooh, this is interesting to me, right? And it's okay to say, I'm not entirely sure I really love psychology, I really love economics. But I also love biology. And what I love about your school is that you give us the flexibility to create our own major or combined majors or take multiple minors, right and understanding the school.
And let's face it, when you get in, you always have the opportunity to switch, right, it may require a little bit of extra work, it might require some summer school, or even an extra year. And if you can afford to do that with your life, then by all means, go ahead and do that. But don't, don't think that you are signing yourself up for a lifetime of whatever it is that you study.
In college. It is really for the colleges when they're reading your application, they just want to know, Are you thoughtful? Have you put some effort into this? Have you taken this seriously? And do you understand our school? And how do the majors and academics work at our school?
Okay, the last question today comes to us from Florida. And this listener asks, Do I need to apply early decision or early action? Why this is a highly complex issue. And for those of you who are wondering about early decision, or early action, those deadlines are in November, they are for many of the schools in the common app, it's a way for them to lock in a class. Early Decision is binding with early decision, you sign an agreement and you say I am only applying to the school with small exceptions. But right now we'll just say I'm only applying to the school. And if admitted, I will attend. And that is an unbreakable contract. Yes, people have broken it. But there are tremendous penalties for the high school, they will be for lack of a better term shunned by the schools, usually, the universities take that very seriously. And it's just a bad thing to do.
So respect the rules of early decision. The Ivy Plus schools sometimes will admit over half their class early decision. So it's something you want to look at very, very carefully if you're interested in an IV plus early decisions can dramatically increase your probability of success. Do not use early decisions as a lottery ticket. Don't you know, I hear a lot of students saying well, I'm just going to apply to Stanford or Harvard or Yale early decision, because but let's see what happens?
Okay, but you've now severely limited your options at other schools, that might be a much better fit for you. So be thoughtful about that you can stretch an early decision, certainly. But be aware, be careful that you're not closing too many other doors. Early action also has a November deadline, but early action is non-binding. A lot of schools have done that to look for socioeconomic diversity because the issue, of course, with the early decision is that you have no leverage to negotiate a better financial aid package. So you get in you're obligated to go. And the school says here's your financial aid package. Now, if something changes, and you truly can't afford to attend, you can have that conversation with financial aid and they may release you from your early decision if you can't find a way to pay for school. But those instances are few and far between.
So be thoughtful about that early decision. Early action says hey, you get in you have a spot in the class. We don't want you to apply to any other selective early decision or early action programs, which is fair, but you can also then apply regular decisions to other schools and in some cases, some other early deadlines. Read the fine print carefully on that. But it does give you then a chance to see how you do in regular decisions. And then you can go back to your early action school and say, Look, I got this financial aid packet and this financial aid award, can you match it? Can we look at lowering the cost of tuition boarding, whatever it is?
So I think you need to be very thoughtful about that you need to look at the probability of success, you need to look at the downside, you need to look at the financial commitments. But yes, for certain schools, it is a big advantage. And I urge you to be thoughtful and take all of those factors into consideration. Thank you for the questions. I really, really encourage you to keep sending them in. I love them. I love being able to address them either in a separate podcast or in one where we're focusing on questions. Next week is going to be very exciting, the new Common App will be open. I'm going to look back through and we're gonna have a conversation on the podcast about what that means any changes and get you off to a strong start in August before school starts. Thank you.
Thank you for joining us today. Please take a moment to subscribe to the admittedly podcast and download this episode. I welcome you to share your thoughts and questions with me. You can find us on social media at admittedly podcast. I look forward to continuing our journey together.
